Podcast Episode 6: The Coffee Controversy (with Transcription)

Welcome to our 6th episode of True Health Solutions Podcast with Dr. Lonnie Bagwell and Brigitte Spurgeon.

In this episode we delve into the pros and cons of coffee consumption. Learn how it impacts your gut, your cognition and your metabolism. We include our best recommendations for how to choose your coffee and how to combat the negative side effects!

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Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (00:00):
To me, caffeine, uh, mostly in the form of coffee, uh, has been nothing short of the limitless pill. Welcome to the True Health Solutions Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, stress, inflammation, and functional health clinician. And

Brigitte Spurgeon (00:14):
I'm your co-host Brigitte Spurgeon Metabolism and nutrition expert.

Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (00:18):
This podcast is where we bring hope, truth, and inspiration for your holistic health journey

Brigitte Spurgeon (00:23):
Because the world needs the best version of you.

Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (00:28):
Hey everyone. Welcome to True Health Solutions podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Lonnie Bagwell with

Brigitte Spurgeon (00:33):
Brigitte Spurgeon, Ola

Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (00:36):
<laugh>, the Brigitte Spurgeon. And today we're gonna be tackling a topic, uh, that in just about every circle in preparation for today's podcast and talking about it with patients every single week, week in and week out, it still continues to maintain a high level of controversy, lots of emotion behind it. Uh, you know, some people desperately wanting to understand it, and some people desperately, completely ignoring anything about it because they don't wanna make any changes with it. Today we're gonna talk about the controversial topic of coffee and the caffeine that can or cannot come with it. So, uh, and we were just talking pre-show, kind of prep, and Brigitte, what, what are, what tells, I guess, tell the listeners a little bit more about your relationship when it comes to coffee.

Brigitte Spurgeon (01:18):
So, I was a coffee drinker probably in my teens and college, uh, grad school as well. I would pull all-nighters and that's how I got through the night. So I, I developed an unhealthy coffee habit there. And then, actually, this is funny, but when Sandy and I started dating, he was not a coffee drinker, and he said, Hey, so like, we're, we're together now. I don't drink coffee, so I, I didn't know that you should drink coffee. And I just was young and dumb. And I said, Okay, sure. And I literally just quit drinking coffee, period. That's it. Quit for 19 years, <laugh> end of 2020. Had a cappuccino here or there in South Africa. That was actually amazing. And <laugh>, I brought coffee back into my routine. It started with like one a week and then it was like probably every other day. And now it's a little bit more daily. So I am enjoying daily coffee, but here is my thing with coffee. For me personally, I don't drink poor quality coffee, period. It tastes disgusting to me. I'm very aware of what I put in my body. So literally when I go to a new place, I'm like scoping out who has organic coffee? <laugh>.

Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (02:39):
Yeah. That's good. That's good. And, uh, and, and, uh, and I've been part of on that journey with you a little bit, uh, when you're here in the office and it's been fun cuz you've been bringing bean back from all over the world and your adventures. So that's been fun. Which kind of speaks to my coffee story too, cuz um, I actually didn't do any kind of caffeine for all the way through undergraduate. Um, for whatever reason, I don't know, I just didn't really do it. And then, uh, I didn't start coffee until friends had gone on a chiropractic missions trip, brought some, some quality bean back from Bolivia and elsewhere in South America. And um, next thing you know, I really got into like the taste and the origin. And that's my nature is like, I wanna go all in on something and learn about it and understand the flavors and the science and whatnot.

(03:21):
And, uh, and then so, uh, you know, with doing that I started consuming caffeine at a higher level than I ever had. And of course that had its own, you know, effect that I was a huge fan of at the time. And then so coffee entered my world, but then also at the same time, for whatever reason, up until just a few years ago, um, I would always go through seasons of coffee. So I'd have it and then I wouldn't have it. And then, uh, and people may not remember that are listening to this, but there was, there wasn't that long ago when, uh, cold brew and all that stuff didn't exist. And so the thought of having a hot beverage living here in the south was miserable to me. So I would go through like summertime, no coffee, and then winter time, I would love to have that emotional connection of a hot cup of coffee walking outside when it's 40 degrees or, you know, going to the mountains or something like that.

(04:08):
So mine was very seasonal. It was never like automatic, um, until, uh, the cold coffees came out and then it became automatic. And then unfortunately, um, that's when I got to learn about what is likely a genetic predis position for slow metabolism of coffee, because now I have negative effects of caffeine. Um, and, uh, and so I have to be really careful about how I have what I have and what I have it. So, um, I have a lot of story as it relates to coffee and so, and so I've been up and down and all over the place on the coffee journey. So I really don't have a bias of, I guess if I have any bias, it's that I wish that my, my body was different so that I could choose to have it whenever I wanted. I guess that's my bias. Sure.

(04:50):
You know, I just wanna be optimal and so, um, I feel like I'm less than optimal with it, and that's my constant ongoing fight. So we're working to clean my liver up, uh, better than ever turn off. That's the, that's kind of where I'm at with my story. But, um, but as we dive into this, this, uh, this saga called coffee and it's associated caffeine, um, and we will get into the science of it. We're gonna, we definitely are gonna give, it's like a tips, tricks and strategies kind of if you're gonna do it, if you're not gonna do it, how to do it, how to not, We're gonna talk about all that like we always do. Um, but let's talk a little bit more about, um, uh, our relationship with coffee as it pertains to patients. And so I know that's something that you deal with on a regular basis, uh, like you were saying to the point where now you've had to do like educational videos as a part of our programs because it's such a common occurrence. And so, uh, to give, give our listeners a little bit of an insight as to I guess how it just plays into their lives but also help maybe it impacts and, and has affected people's health.

Brigitte Spurgeon (05:44):
It's so interesting and it is such an emotional and controversial topic because I, I believe if I did not allow coffee on my nutrition plans, I believe that I would have people that would disqualify themselves on that one fact alone, no matter what results we could give them hope of achieving it is that emotional and has, has really become a comfort to a lot of people. And I believe especially these days when we have amazing milk froths and just like you said, cold brews and we have access, like coffee has become an experience and

Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (06:31):
Yeah, they've done a great job of doing that, haven't they? They took, they took a, a, a brewed uh, plant, you know, and

Brigitte Spurgeon (06:37):
It doesn't taste good

Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (06:39):
<laugh>, Right? They really Right in inherently. Yeah, exactly. Inherently doesn't taste amazing to our tongue. It's bitter in fact, which is part of the biochemistry of it. And they made it an experience in a multi-billion dollar experience.

Brigitte Spurgeon (06:50):
Yeah. So, so two things. So we actually do include coffee on our weight loss programs. And so part of my education on that is how to, the best practices for drinking coffee. But I find that I also have to address like coffee addiction in a sense, because I'll be able to identify when someone certainly has a dependency on daily coffee or is drinking too much of it. And certainly that is going to have health ramifications. So as a clinician, I have to be, I have to assess and be aware of that and then even speak to the root cause. Like, you know, why do you feel like you have to have three cups of coffee a day and get to the root cause? And really, uh, you know, being in the, the realm of metabolic pathways, which really is about energy, I find like I want to educate someone that we don't need, I don't want you to have to take a stimulant to feel your best. I want you to feel your best just naturally from the inside out. We wanna help your body heal so you can have proper function, but then you can have, you can just enjoy a cup of coffee socially or you know, every now and again, you don't feel like you have to have two co two cups of coffee a day.

Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (08:13):
Yeah. And that is, that is something that has been a hallmark of no matter whenever, uh, anybody who knows me would know that I've said that from the beginning is that if it's ever feel, if it ever feels like I need it, I will not have it. Like I I, I get to the point at anytime ever, if I ever felt like I'm, I'm like, I, I'm going to the, we have coffee maker here at the office, right? And, and so if I'm going to grab it because I feel like I need it, I will purposely not do it and likely take two weeks off. And now at the same time, because I've done that cyclically over the years, um, I also haven't suffered a lot of withdrawal because even the inkling of feeling like I'm becoming addicted or, you know, whatever, then I just, and I'm, and it keeps me happy.

(08:54):
It's like I, cuz I, cuz I keeping my first priorities, my first priorities, I've always made it a point to, uh, anytime that I ever felt addicted, anytime I ever felt like, you know, I have to have this or I I need it to get through the afternoon, I would suffer through the afternoon. That was the line in the sand. I'm coming off of it for a week or two weeks, you know, I don't wanna have that dependency. I trust my body to produce the necessary energy. And at some point in my mind, the caffeine now has become an interference, not a, not an enhancement. Um, but there's no doubt about it. And I, I do wanna talk to, to our audience about the, you know, it, it, caffeine is nothing short of, uh, and coffee, even with its antioxidants and such, it's nothing short of a performance enhancing drug.

(09:35):
I mean, on one hand that's amazing. On the other hand, you have to know what you're dealing with. Like, you're, you're, you're, you're handling and choosing to participate in something that is a manipulator of the body, right? And it, and, and there's a lot of things that are right. There's different nutrients that do it at different levels and produce good positive outcomes. And so we're not gonna vilify coffee and we're certainly gonna talk about the positive benefits of it, but we gotta talk about all of it. And so somebody's listening to this show and they wanted, they, they were dying for us to be like a champion for coffee, or they wanted us to, you know, vilify coffee. They're gonna get frustrated because as clinicians, we're gonna tell you things like it can be amazing, it can do some negative stuff. It really depends on the patient. And we're not gonna take the cookie cutter approach to anything even controversial and tough to talk about things like coffee and caffeine, right? So what, what are, um, talk about just for a minute about some of the, um, benefits as you see it, of, uh, of, you know, of coffee being that performance enhancing drug. Just something that's a great, uh, it can be a great benefit to, uh, to someone's health.

Brigitte Spurgeon (10:36):
Well, I mean, certainly being an athlete, you know, I've, I've used caffeine. Um, certainly I'll, I'll put a little caffeine in my body before a race or with endurance races where I've done like 12 hour races or, you know, ultramarathons, you know, sometimes five hours in or something. A little bit of caffeine is a good boost. But, but also sometimes while, while racing, like your cortisol, like your adrenaline, everything is so high, I know my body so well that I could even be like, Hey, actually my body can't handle the additional stimulant right now. So I've, I've certainly used it for, for racing and then just metabolically. And once again, with me being in the weight loss space, it, it is a metabolic enhancer. But my thing as a holistic practitioner is like, we don't want to, like I said earlier, we don't want to rely on a stimulant.

(11:30):
My goal for my patients is to heal your metabolism. So you don't need the stimulant, but we still can't deny that it is a metabolic enhancer. So it is nice to have the benefits sometimes of a, of a green tea or some, some black coffee in your day. It's certainly too, um, can stimulate bowel movements. So we, we can see the benefits, uh, that way with our patients. And, and then the other part of it that I, uh, notice is something called the whoosh effect. And a lot of people are aware of that, but as you're losing weight, um, part of what your body can do is it, it like reconstitutes cell, like as you're losing fat, it reconstitutes the cells or the interstitial space so it, it hydrates. So you might be losing fat but you're not seeing it on the scale. Um, be because it's holding onto that water.

(12:22):
But then it can take something that can create a release, which we call that whoosh effect. So literally I've had patients like, they'll lose weight then they'll, the skills say the same thing for three or four days and then like literally the next day they can lose five pounds. Um, due to the whoosh effect. Well, well, coffee or caffeine can be a igniter of the whoosh effect. Um, interestingly, alcohol can be an igniter of that whoosh effect as well. So we can see that for someone who's not like a regular, uh, caffeine drinker and that put a little bit in and then it just creates that whoosh effect and they release three, five pounds.

Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (13:00):
Yeah, those are, and I think most people would be familiar with, that's awesome for the people to hear, to understand because sometimes that they're feeling water retention, if they're feel, you know, they might be drinking caffeine, they can start to even just understand their day to day, uh, water balance. You know, they're water tables, um, from what you just said, which is awesome cause I'm sure that's something people aren't familiar with. Most people are familiar with the idea that it can kick up metabolic rate or open up the adrenals, right? And, and be a, a immediate source kind of instant energy. Um, which we're gonna talk about a little bit more when we get into the science of it. My, my number one thing by far, um, is that to me caffeine, uh, mostly in the form of coffee, uh, has been nothing short of the limitless pill.

(13:42):
And I don't know if people will get that reference, but it's the idea that it just opens up the mind. Like the amount of focus that comes in a cup of coffee to me is my most favorite thing that could ever come out of a, a performance enhancing drug. Like all the other benefits of all the other types of things that we would eat naturally and all the things we would never touch that are so unnatural. Um, but when, when you can, you can go from zero to 60 in the category of focus and as a clinician, you know, to be able to, to go into a, a shift of seeing, you know, dozens of patients and just have that just incredible focus. Like that is my ultimate goal for every single shift. Like, I wanna be present, I wanna be dialed in, I want to be able to connect the dots as a clinician, you know, be effective, connect with patients, you know, And that's, so that's my favorite thing, uh, my favorite.

(14:27):
And it, and it's absolutely second to none, you know, when it comes to that. And we can, I almost just say this too, for a lot of people, you know, we can eat a bunch of berries and take a bunch of other supplements and things like that and those can be amazing and natural and beneficial, but nothing is as effective as caffeine in in doing that in my experience. And there's other, and again, there's other ways that we help people even in those categories of cognitive function, function and such. But caffeine's just incredible at it. It's really effective. And, and most people, again, might be aware of that too, or I guess a lot of people be aware of that since 80% of the United States in some ways affected by caffeine on a daily basis, right? So this isn't so foreign. Um, but we wanna honor the fact that it is pretty incredible and it has some, some really good, uh, benefits to our health across the board.

(15:10):
Now with that, um, let's talk about some of the science behind, uh, caffeine, um, you know, and, and coffee, um, and, and help people understand what's exactly happening inside their body. And we're gonna put to put, to put to bed. I guess a couple of ideas that are potential concerns or, or, and I know we're gonna throw some people some curve balls here too. So let's talk about, uh, digestion. So when you drink coffee, okay, um, then a lot of people will say that it helps me digest food better Now, and you just mentioned it, right? It can help with bowel movements. Now what most people don't realize is that, so when you drink coffee, you're gonna increase your gastric release, okay? Which then is gonna increase gastric acid and gastro, um, is uh, is what's going to impact, uh, those bowel movements more than caffeine.

(15:58):
And that's really, really important because people think I need the caffeine in order to get the bowel moving. And it can be a stimulant like you mentioned, but also we gotta remember that caffeine is a, it's just, I, I called it, I know it's kind of funny and it's not entirely accurate, but I called it the hormone bully because just what it does is it seems to impact a lot of different hormones, not just, not just come through with the caffeine and force a muscle response, right? When it comes to bowel movements. And so, and I think that's really important because it also affects things like grelin, which is the hunger hormone. So I think you might have mentioned that as well, or, or maybe you mentioned that, I'm not sure. But Carlin is, is their hunger hormone, right? And so, and I've used it for that, that would be my second favorite thing from KE over the years is like, cuz I like to eat.

(16:44):
I mean, I came from being an offensive lineman eating 10,000 calorie plus a day, right? So I love the idea if I drank a cup of coffee, I no longer want to eat all those calories, right? So I've used it for that over the years. Um, but the cool thing about that this conversation is, is that the science, the actual research says that you don't need the caffeine piece. So if you're out there saying, I can't have a lot of caffeine, you can drink decaff and still benefit in the bowel category cuz it turns out that it's, again, not just the caffeine, right? It's actually the hormones that are affected and also appetite suppression. So good news for those of you who are, who are, who are, um, anti caffeine or can't handle it or you know, even like myself, need it in like highly controlled moderation as it turns out, uh, you can still drink decaf and, uh, get great benefits and digestion and bowel function.

Brigitte Spurgeon (17:34):
That's a great question. Who should not be taking in caffeine? And, and certainly we should never be dependent on caffeine. We've already discussed it's a A A P E D a performance enhancing drug. It, it, it's a, a stimulant. It's ar it's artificially stimulating the body. However, there are some categories of people who just really should be aware of their caffeine intake. So who would be the, the top two or three categories?

Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (18:03):
Yeah. Um, the, the first one's gonna be tough, um, for people to know without testing. And the second is going to be easier for everybody. Uh, easy way for everybody to look at it. First of all, um, there are people who, like myself, you know, may have activated genes that, um, that cause slow metabolism. So if you slow, if you metabolize caffeine slowly, uh, then, and, and I'll tell my story real quick with that. But what happens is, is that because I'm, I'm a metabolized caffeine slower, um, it might take a few days, you know, for it to clear my system, whereas, you know, you bridge it might clear it in 30 minutes and so you don't get the bioaccumulation that I get. And so now I can eat, I can drink the same amount of caffeine or eat the same amount of caffeine for three consecutive days, but I'm getting accumulation of it.

(18:46):
And for me, the effect of that is I hit a tipping point and it triggers a migraine. And then now you take that coupled with the fact that if, depending on stress levels and so, you know, can trigger it sooner, it can be harder hitting, you know, so, and paying attention to my body, which leads me. So with genetics testing and learning at your SNPs, you'd be able to know, do you or do you not metabolize caffeine at a higher or, or a slower rate faster or slower rate. The other part though is, is that everybody can just simply pay attention to how it affects their body. And, and, and for that means that for a lot of people that are listening right now, that means that you're gonna have to do a reset, which means you're gonna have to come off of it completely, right?

(19:24):
Which probably scare, like we just lost half of our listeners right now, I feel like. But anyway, so you have to come off of it completely so we can get a good clean look at your biochemistry and then reintroduce it and see how your body's actually responding to it. Um, and I liken it to my journey with nutrition. I mean, I ate so much junk that I didn't, and I would say, no, I'm fine with that. I didn't, that doesn't negatively impact me until I took it out and added it back in. And things that I was eating that I thought was okay, I just had beat my body down so much that I thought they were okay. And turns out like I eat that thing and it gives me diarrhea. I eat that thing and it makes me nauseous. You know, like I, like, I gotta like, I want it outta my body immediately.

(19:59):
And it's the same thing with caffeine. If we actually take the time to come off of it and do a reset and reintroduce it, then we're gonna get a good clear look at, you know, at how that's actually impacting us. Um, and by the way, you know, from a performance enhancing drug standpoint, if you come off of it when you reintroduce it, you don't need very much to get maximum benefit, uh, that most of the benefits that people are want, right? So now you can reduce your consumption just by doing a reset. Um, exactly. So that, yeah, so the first people are those that don't metabolize it well, Everybody needs to look at their body. Um, and then the second, uh, category, I guess overall category would be those people, um, who just have burnt out adrenals, thyroid conditions. Um, most people don't know this.

(20:40):
Um, but it's related to this topic is that, uh, or to this point is that if you have adrenal fatigue, adrenal fatigue is the number one, uh, uh, um, uh, reason why all the medications for thyroids say that you shouldn't take 'em. So number one contraindication for taking a thyroid medication is if you have adrenal fatigue. Now, I know you're smiling cuz this just blows our mind. This is so ridiculous that, that the high majority of people who have thyroid conditions have adrenal fatigue. And yet no doctor, you're probably, and again, I can't prescribe medications. I'm not a medical doctor. This is not medical advice. I'm not tell, it's just kind of one of these things that makes, gives, it's like a head scratcher that if you, uh, have, you know, if you have adrenal fatigue, then it's a contraindication. Just read the label, you know, read the ins, the package insert for your thyroid medication, it'll tell you don't take the medication.

(21:28):
Well this is kind of the same thing. It's like if you have adrenal fatigue, then we don't need to be pumping those adrenals even harder. We need healing. We need recovery, right? We need to be looking, let some lab work, maybe, you know, testing, uh, some neurotransmitters and hormones and figure out how to get you back to a healthy state so that then you can choose to be able to participate in this thing called coffee or caffeine. And that, that reminded me of one thing that I think is one of the most important points that I don't wanna miss, is that, um, I love the way we're talking about this because it's about the choice. It's about freedom. It's about like, I want, I want to be healthy so that I can choose. I don't ever want to be locked in a place where I feel dependent on it.

(22:11):
Um, I'm not gonna be as effective for patients or for my family. I'm gonna be moody and irritable, therefore I have to, um, I can't control what I eat, so I need the appetite suppressant effect of it, right? That's the, the true health freedom, which we talk about all the time. That's what that looks like. It looks like being healthy so that if you choose to do it, like you're choosing to do it because you like the positive effects of it and at any point you can choose not to do it. And you're still walking in that freedom. And that's exactly the place that I've fought to be in, um, over the years as well. So I think that's a really important point that I wanted to not, not have us miss anything else on the positive side or effects of coffee or anything else on those that should not be participating in the consumption of coffee or, or caffeine.

Brigitte Spurgeon (22:58):
Yes. Two things. One, you know, as you were talking, my heart actually just got really sad for those people really struggling with adrenal fatigue. They don't even know what they're struggling with. They just know that they can't get through the day. They wake up tired, They don't have energy to focus, to be productive. And so what are they doing? They're using coffee honestly, just to survive. They're in survival mode. And if, if that is you, I I I feel just really sad. Like my heart goes out to you right now and, but I almost just wanna say, be careful because what you're doing to survive will cause a crash. Cuz that's when adre adrenal fatigue turns to adrenal burnout and it's very hard. It takes a lot of clinicians and testing and money to, to come back out of that. So, uh, you know, definitely get some testing done.

(23:53):
Seek, seek out a functional professional to heal your body from the inside out because survival mode will burn you out. The the second group is to those, and I've dealt with this personally, is, uh, estrogen dominance. And so, you know, certainly I specialize working with obesity and with obesity, very commonly comes estrogen dominance. And, and I have suffered from estrogen dominance myself. I have a history of polycystic ovarian syndrome. I have, I have a history of infertility. I also have, uh, gosh, this was probably within the last year, I found a painful lump in my breast and immediate, you know, I I went straight to testing for cancer. I'm fortunate where I have access to those, to those resources. And my mom had just passed from, from cancer, so I was hyper aware. But that testing was so important because it revealed a hu I mean my estradiol was like through the roof.

(24:56):
And then we looked at some other markers. It was my reverse T3 incidentally and my ldl, which were all stress markers. I obviously, you know, did these, this lab work with Dr. Bagwell and, and worked through these together. And the assessment was because I was coming off of a season of grief, my body was just in high stress mode internally, and I was to actually, my caffeine, uh, consumption had gone up slightly, which was, which was just feeding this monster inside of me. This like hormone imbalance, which I just didn't, wasn't aware was going on. And so my solution, one of the solutions was actually to back off. So I just went, I went straight to decaf or, or no caffeine for a while so that my body could come back into balance.

Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (25:44):
Yeah, that's, that's so good. Um, and wait, we can, I, as much as caffeine, coffee can be a good thing and it has positive benefits, I just feel like in the world today, the stress that we're under, uh, whether you're going through, you know, almost, I wanna say like involuntary stress, you've been impacted by things or, you know, choices that we're making and, and you know, we're, we're driving, we're thriving, all this stuff that, that it just, it, it does put a lot of people in the categories that, you know, maybe should be on the low end to no end of the spectrum of caffeine consumption. Right? I was just thinking as you were saying that when we go through these things where we, we have stress, um, which can both indirectly and directly affect our gut and our ability to absorb nutrients, our ability to metabolize things, right, our ability to, to mobilize those and use them for good, um, you know, caffeine actually plays a huge role in that.

(26:34):
There's warnings about how caffeine can, um, you know, affect, increase or decrease absorption of certain medications, which means that it's going to, and you're gonna get a higher, higher dose or higher absorption rate of some of the pills you might be taking. Or it could be suppressing that, um, it could, uh, increase and, and make, uh, a, a more rapid metabolism of the chemical that you're putting inside your body or, or it can actually cause you to excrete it too fast so you don't absorb it. Or it could actually cause it in some people to excrete it too, too slow. So you're getting, again, a hyper dose out of the same dose that you're taking. And again, I don't op we don't operate in the world of medications, I just know that that's some of the warnings that are out there. But that also is, is does affect us and our, and how we, uh, actually work with patients and what we recommend in our protocols because it does the same thing.

(27:19):
It can affect your body's ability to metabolize, uh, the nutrients, uh, and supplements that we're recommending, right? Their ability to, um, excrete it, their ability to absorb it. And so, um, and so it's really important to know like, is your gut healthy? And if you don't have a healthy gut, then caffeine is going to, you already start off with an imbalance in your digestive system. Caffeine is either gonna upregulate or down-regulate that and it's gonna affect the treatments that we're doing to actually help correct the problem, right? And so if it sounds complicated, um, it doesn't have to be all right, but we have to have a conversation about it. And that's what these podcasts are about. Like, we're gonna talk about this stuff so we can start the conversations, you know, that are specific to each individual patient. Um, and specifically when it comes to that, like magnesium, maybe one of the top deficiencies, nutrient deficiencies, mineral deficiencies in the world today, that's one of the ones that's directly impacted, um, by caffeine actually.

(28:12):
So it actually can cause you to absorb less magnesium, creating more of a magnesium deficiency, which is already a problem. People are already deficient magnesium most of the time. Also a lot of people, this is what's crazy, people will actually take or be drinking caffeine every day and then they'll say, I started taking B vitamins cuz I wanted more, I needed more energy even on top of the coffee that they're drinking, right? Well, it turns out that caffeine will actually decrease your body's ability to absorb vitamin B. And so now we have this, like, now we took a billion dollar industry and added on a hundred million dollar industry, right? So caffeine first, and then now we're taking all these B vitamins and supplements to try to make up for, you know, the, the energy that's been depleted through chronic caffeine consumption, right? So now we're creating this negative feedback loop.

(28:54):
And anyway, the point is, is that everybody's different. You need to test your body, do a reset talk to us, let us walk you through it and talk you through it. Um, and then we can get to the bottom of, you know, what your next best step is, we like to say. So, um, so with that said, uh, let's go ahead and wrap up this, this episode and talk about what are, and we don't really have, like, this is your 1, 2, 3, 4 things when it comes to coffee. Let's just talk a little bit for a minute about, um, what is our, what are our top kind of perspectives when it comes to caffeine? So if you're, somebody says, Hey, talk to me about coffee, what should I do? What's your number one approach to coffee slash caffeine?

Brigitte Spurgeon (29:31):
My first approach, um, with our patients is actually to talk about the quality of what they're putting in their body. That's, you know, certainly a conversation with everything we put in our body so we're, uh, shifting the way that they drink their coffee. So shifting from just drinking a Starbucks or a regular, like a FOLs or a regular coffee. So coffee and tea, they're the most pesticide, uh, laden crops. And so literally if we're not drinking organic, we are just choosing to put toxins into, into our body. And so, so switching to organic sources, looking for high quality, this is why I love looking at beans like around the world. Um, and I can, I've got to a place where I can just like taste good, good fresh, uh, you know, good quality coffee. We also look at, at the acidity, and I know that's something that you look at when you look at the quality of your beans.

(30:29):
Dr. Bagua is the low, low acid varieties of that, right? And then also we're looking at, you know, what is a person putting in their coffee? Because that can be sometimes even worse than the coffee itself. And so we, we are certainly in a diet culture where people are doing sugar-free, fat-free creamers and thinking that they're doing healthy things for their body, but literally they're just setting themselves up for failure, metabolically and tox vor toxins. And so, um, I'll switch someone the creamer someone's using and the sweetener someone's, um, ideally if you can go without any of these, these things. So I personally alternate, I actually love like the cold brew. I don't do cold brew too much cuz the caffeine tends to be higher. But I love doing like an iced Americano and that just like a chilled coffee, just that bitterness, Yeah, it tastes really great to me.

(31:28):
But I also love froth milk and I love a cappuccino. So if I can get high, high, I always look for the highest quality creamer that I can put in there. And I'm such a nerd. I literally will ask the, the barista to see what they have in their oat milk or their coconut milk because sometimes it has, like, Oatley for example, has rape seed, right? And oatley is a, is a creamer that froths really nicely. So the, the good coffee houses like to use it, but it has rape seed in it. And so I was like, yeah, darn it, I can't use oat milk anymore. And so I know when I was in Huntersville defined, they actually got like a really nice creamery that they get their regular milk from and I'd actually use that. And so I'm just looking for the highest quality creamer that I can use, but I also don't wanna be using a creamer on a daily bl basis. So I like to alternate between a black coffee and um, and a creamer coffee. So those would be my top tips as far as the quality of what we're putting in our body.

Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (32:29):
Yeah, that's good. Uh, and I echo that. Um, I'm, I'm dairy free. Um, but there, so you, but that means you have to pay attention even more so because the alternatives, you know, you know how it goes. They, they, they start making it well and then they make it cheaper. And then now there's 20 varieties out there of which 19 of 'em are inappropriate <laugh>, you know, for human consumption, uh, by our standards. And so anyway, so I, I do, and there are some amazing stu things out there when it comes to addins. Like I, I know, um, I can't think of his name right now, he's a surfer, lead, lead, uh, maybe Hamilton, Hamilton, maybe lair. And so he had a really cool Laird lad Hamilton is what it is. And so he has like a coconut creamer that has like superfoods in it, like, uh, like lion's main mushroom.

(33:11):
And and I just love the idea that we can have adaptogens in our coffee, you know, while we're stimulating, you know, the adrenals a little bit. And you know, that's what takes a what could be, uh, uh, good food turns it into a great, uh, food for the body. So yeah, so I think that's, you're right on with that organic shade, grown low acid, these are all things that are a better choice. Um, and yeah, costs a little bit more, but nothing, you know, costs as much as, as uh, the bad health effects that comes out of putting all these toxins inside our body.

Brigitte Spurgeon (33:41):
Do you know what we should talk about? You know, coffee is actually very commonly a source of mold.

Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (33:47):
Yeah, yeah. So, and I actually, I'm glad you said that cuz I thought about that when you were, um, when you were talking about your top, uh, kind of focus, uh, is how it's processed. And so, uh, and I've had lots of great conversations with our local baristas that are in these top-notch coffee shops and, um, and, and how they, how they air dry it, how they sun dry it. Um, you know, these are really important things to help reduce and eliminate any possibility for mold. Whereas with the cheaper beans, this is a major concern. Mold in general is a major concern that we have to be aware of it, but my goodness, with 80% of Americans drinking coffee and the high majority of those drinking, uh, you know, mold laden coffee because of the mass production of it, this is a, this becomes a health crisis. And so that is absolutely critical cuz it, and like so many things, whether it's supplements, it's food, it's coffee beans included, it's not so much even you can have amazing quality and then process it poorly, uh, and absolutely make it a health concern versus a health enhancement. So what's your, what's your second uh, or second focus when it comes to, um, how people should approach coffee and caffeine?

Brigitte Spurgeon (34:57):
So it's combating, uh, some of the, the side effects or the characteristics of coffee intake. And so we give our patients, uh, minerals to take on a daily bla basis because, um, I mean typically people are just depleted of minerals in general, but, um, but coffee does just like you said earlier, depletes minerals in, in fact a lot of our patients get, um, uh, fermented b vitamin complex as well as they start their programs. Um mm-hmm <affirmative>, same thing that you just mentioned, um, can deplete, uh, b vitamins in the body. So it's, it's almost just, um, protecting that use and making sure that we're supporting the body so that it can function optimally so that the metabolism can heal. So, uh, minerals and a lot of times we're recommending patients put in their coffee or in their water and then we also like to do about a liter of alkaline water a day. And so, and you know, coffee consumption, you know, certainly, and you may talk about this, we recommend that in, in the morning and then also in the morning doing some alkaline water as they're drinking that so, so rehydrating, but then also combating some of the acidic effects that coffee has.

Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (36:10):
Yeah, I think that's important too. Talk about the hydration factor, right? So if you're gonna drink, um, brewed coffee, um, that, you know with water, and this is a controversial topic when it comes to coffee because almost everybody will tell you that it's a diuretic. Um, and it is, but the better question we we're all about asking better questions is to what degree is it a diuretic on a scale of one to 10? Is it a 10? And it's just like you drink six ounces of water and it's gonna pull, you know, 12 ounces outta your body, you know? Or is it a mild diuretic? And in this case, coffee is a, is a, is a mild to moderate diuretic. Um, but if you're drinking brewed coffee, um, um, or adding water to your espresso like an Americano, then you are hydrating probably equally to the amount that you would lose.

(36:52):
So that's really important cuz a lot of people are walking out thinking, Oh, I drank coffee, therefore I'm dehydrated. Well, that may not it be the case or the, they may be dehydrated, but it may not be because of their coffee. And so now if you're contrast, if you're gonna drink espressos, cortas, et cetera, et cetera, those types of drinks where there's mostly just the espresso and not water, then you are going to end up having a, uh, you know, a negative effect for de dehydration and you do need to consume additional water along with that. So it could be something, um, as much as, you know, eight to 12 ounces per espresso drink, um, that you're drinking in order to be able to stay hydrated. And so, uh, so that's really important. That would be definitely an important tip because, um, we could talk all day long and we'll have whole episodes dedicated to hydration and water and how important that is for life.

(37:38):
Um, and so there's no, it makes no sense to, to, to consume caffeine and then live dehydrated, right? Um, or consume caffeine and don't get sleep or consume ca right? That doesn't make any sense cuz now we're losing all the positive benefits. So very good. Well, I think that's gonna wrap up, uh, our episode today on coffee. Although I, I imagine we'll be revisiting this amazing topic and controversial topic and emotional topic, um, here as we talk about, as we talk through other episodes. But before we leave, Bridget, anything else that you wanna share with anybody on this topic or any other?

Brigitte Spurgeon (38:11):
I'm good.

Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (38:13):
All right. So thank you very much for joining us again on True Health Solutions Podcast. Make sure that you, uh, like, uh, the episode like, uh, True Health Solutions podcast, so you can make sure you get all of the notifications and make sure that you click the links, um, to be able to connect with us on Instagram and Facebook. We look forward to hearing from you. Remember, this is the start of a dialogue. Uh, this isn't just, uh, an educational experience. Make sure that you're reaching out, out, asking questions, uh, sharing this with friends and family. Let's start the dialogue. Let's get healthy together and find these solutions together. So we appreciate you, we love you, and we look forward to hearing from you and we'll see you on the next episode. Thanks for joining us today on True Health Solutions Podcast. Make sure that you click to subscribe. Also go to our website, www.truehealthcharlotte.com, where you can download any resources related to today's show or any future shows. And lastly, if you search for True Health Center Group on Facebook, you'll be able to join our free health community. We look forward to seeing you there.