Podcast Episode 14: New Depression Research (with transcription)
Aug 02, 2022
Welcome to our 14th episode of True Health Solutions Podcast with Dr. Lonnie Bagwell and Brigitte Spurgeon.
In this episode, Dr. Bagwell reviews a recent release of research that found no significant correlation between serotonin and depression. This information has a major impact on those taking SSRI’s for depression.
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Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (00:00):
There is absolutely zero empirical data that supports the link between serotonin and depression. Welcome to the True Health Solutions Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, stress, inflammation, and functional health clinician.
Brigitte Spurgeon (00:11):
And I'm your co-host Bridget Spurgeon Metabolism and nutrition expert.
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (00:15):
This podcast is where we bring hope, truth, and inspiration for your holistic health
Brigitte Spurgeon (00:20):
Journey, because the world needs the best version of you.
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (00:25):
Hello and welcome to True Health Solutions Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, here with my co-host.
Brigitte Spurgeon (00:30):
And I'm Bridget Spurgeon.
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (00:32):
The Bridget Spurgeon. And so we are gonna be talking about something today that is incredibly widespread, um, that I have personal experience with, uh, even, uh, in my health journey. Uh, and it's so widespread. I would say that on a daily basis in the clinic, for sure, you know, we're talking to a patient about this particular issue, uh, as a part of their history. Maybe it's a part of their victory. Um, and, uh, and or, you know, we're just doing things obviously to support their overall body, which really ties into our new understanding of the cause of it. And what we're talking about today is depression. All right? And a lot of times you'd think, Well, what, what is, what is a, what is a, a nutritionist, you know, weight loss program, chiropractor function, What does that have to do with depression? Well, today we're gonna talk about it, and we're gonna talk about it because, uh, some research that just came out kind of stimulated our decision to talk about on today's podcast.
(01:23):
And that is, uh, basically that the, the 50 year ongoing hypothesis as to what causes depression and how we treat it from a medical paradigm, meaning like what the pills do and why we use those pills and such, uh, has just been, the legs have been cut out from under it completely, where some researchers went and did a full retrospective 50 year review of all of the research that's ever been done on serotonin and how it relates to depression. And their conclusion was that there is absolutely zero empirical data that supports the link between serotonin and depression. And so every now and again, you know, we get one of these articles or one of these reviews that comes out that really completely changes the course of, you know, how, how we do things with our health, how we view and manage our health. And oftentimes it is a medi medicine related thing, right?
(02:16):
A kind of a hypothesis. But the problem is, is that most people have perceived that, uh, that it's absolute truth, right? They don't know any better. Uh, people don't do their own research. And I'm not saying that everybody has to, you know, dive into every article that's ever been written on it, but they just trust their medical doctor who trusted the scientists. Um, and stuff gets pushed out there before it's ever fully validated. Um, this is a conversation we've had many times over the last three years with all the pandemic stuff. It's like, I don't know if it's true or not. We don't have data. And then they guess, and then now, just like with that, we're finding out, Oh, wait a minute, nobody has antibodies that did all these vaccines, Right? Different, different podcasts, but same principle that we push stuff out before we really know if it works. And it, and, and one of the, one of the subtitles of that article that that report that came out was a multi-billion dollar failure.
Brigitte Spurgeon (03:09):
But now those lives are forever changed because the medications altered their brains and their neurotransmitters, right? So now they're dealing with the repercussions of that potentially for the rest of their lives.
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (03:24):
Yeah. Yeah. I have a couple stories about that. But one of the things that, um, that I actually share at our dinners that we do, and a lot of our workshops actually, is I, I just go through current statistics and one of the ones that seems to stay in the PowerPoints because it's just, I just think about how women are the healthcare decision makers and their family. So by nature, there'll be more women listening to this podcast than men. Um, and one of the stats that I share every time is that one in four women are not just on a medication, which is a lot in and of itself, um, cause that's tens of millions, but one in four women are on a psychotropic medication. So that's 25% of all women in the United States of America are on a mind altering mind, chemistry, shifting, uh, chemical, you know, drug.
(04:11):
Um, and so when something like this comes out, it is, uh, it is disheartening, you know, to think about 50 years of women, you know, loading up on this stuff to the tune of at least a quarter of all women, you know, loading up on things that, uh, all based on a hypothesis that unfortunately 50 years later gets proven as a poor hypothesis. It's wrong. And, um, you know, now we have not only the, we still have the issue of depression, which is what's supposedly has been, you know, getting fixed for all this time. But now we have the side effects of the, uh, false treatment, you know, of that. And so, so it's outside of our scope to diagnose and treat, you know, obviously these types of conditions. Um, but why we're talking about today is one, we have to continue to share the truth, you know, and that that came out.
(04:56):
That's truth that our, our listeners and our patients need to know. And here, number one, um, and, uh, bigger than that is I can honestly say that we've seen people recover from depression a lot in our office over the years from all the different things that we do. Which, uh, when you actually, uh, you know, look at the article and what the conclusions were, it turns out that the solution to depression is complicated, which is not shocking probably to anybody who's ever dealt with depression. Uh, cuz not everybody who has depression has serotonin imbalances, right? And so we've known that for a long time, and it turns out that it's a multisystem issue. Yes. And by nature of, you know, working through the essentials the way that we do, and all the different types of, uh, protocols and modalities and stuff like that, we're a multisystem office.
(05:44):
And so, uh, so between chiropractic and the neurology associated with that, between the functional medicine and impact on hormones, uh, you know, obviously anti-inflammatory nutrition, detoxification, it, how it impacts thyroid and all, you know, gut digestive. Um, and then the, the weight loss, the weight, our approach to weight loss was always in a way to use, again, multisystem approach to weight loss so that people live leaner, right? Longer term. And, uh, and, uh, and it addresses hormones and inflammation and all, you know. So anyway, the way that we've designed everything happens to be completely congruent with now what they're saying would be the solution for, for depression. Um, and so anyway, so we figured we'd chat about it today, Just have a conversation, uh, in front of the audience and just kind of walk through some of the, I guess some of the lies as it pertains to depression.
(06:33):
Um, and then maybe talk about some of the, uh, proposed solutions that seem to be working consistently. And one thing I wanna say real quick before we dive into all that is just that, um, it's important to look at the numbers. And some of the numbers will say, uh, and I don't refute them, that 46% of people who have been taking SSRIs or selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors for depression, okay? There are several of them, um, that they have gotten better from the depression. And so a lot of people would say, Well, how could it not be rela? How can serotonin not be linked to depression if 46% of the people, according to some studies have gotten better? Well, when you go a layer deeper, it turns out that there are a, an an extremely low number of people who only took the pill while they were attempting to recover from the depression, right?
(07:25):
And so the number one thing that accompanies the SSRIs would be talk therapy. So many, many people, um, I, I mean, most people nowadays that I talk to have been to some kind of therapy for whatever things that have come up in life to talk through some things. And, um, and so it turns out that, of, that the high majority of people who have taken an antidepressant have also gone through talk therapy, which we do have really good research that shows that talk therapy is very effective for helping people walk through and walk out of depression, Right? At the same time, people who are depressed that are overweight, they might also, you know, decide like, I'm, I'm, you know, one of the things I'm gonna do to feel better about myself is I'm gonna lose weight. Like we just said, you lose weight. Well, that actually, and if you do it the right way, like we do, like it actually affects five different body systems, right?
(08:16):
Or, you know, there the depression is leading to increased inflammation and aches and pains. So now they're getting adjusted while they're walking through depression. So there's very few people, very, very few out of that 46% that, uh, that ever just did the drug and sat there and did nothing else about their life. They didn't address their life circumstance, they didn't address their health, they didn't address their weight, you know? And so, uh, so I just wanted to say that for clarity, because we do honor all the numbers. We don't just omit things that don't fit our, you know, our narrative, right? Um, and, uh, but we also are gonna go deeper on those numbers and make sure that we fully understand them. So, any comments on that before we dive in?
Brigitte Spurgeon (08:55):
Well, I do wanna add the disclaimer that we don't recommend making any changes in medications without the supervision of your doctor or a professional.
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (09:08):
Yeah. Great. I'll thank you for saying that. And, uh, and we do always say that to patients one on one, you know, just not our scope. And as always, we we're not in the, uh, gosh, there's great quotes from like a hundred years ago about this stuff, but we're not about the management of disease. We really wanna just focus on health, right? And that's what this podcast is about, true health solutions. And, uh, and so let's do that. Let's talk about, um, we kind of talked a little bit about the problem, I guess, and the, the problem that unfortunately now millions people are gonna face with. Now what do I do? Um, so let's walk through, um, just I guess some of the most common questions, um, as it pertains to depression. And the first one, just to be clear, is depression caused by a chemical imbalance?
(09:49):
Over 80% of humans in the United States of America believe that depression is due specifically to a chemical imbalance. Okay? So first of all, so we've already debunked it, but we gotta just know that even if you're listening and you're like, Yeah, I kind of thought that you gotta know that 80% of the people that you come in contact with believe that still. So we gotta get the word out that there's more to the story when it comes to depression. And, um, and I was actually reading, uh, uh, you know, getting prepared for today a little bit, and I was reading, and the better average of 50% kept coming up like a plus or minus, you know, five or 6%. But they were interviewing professionals, healthcare professionals, and they said, um, you know, what do you believe? And and 50% of them on average, uh, said, Yeah, it's from a chemical imbalance.
(10:33):
These are therapists, these are, um, of different kinds. Like, so mental health therapists, there are physical therapists, medical doctors, right? Everybody there, there's still half the clinicians. Even though this research, by the way, I know this, this, remember the research that came out and yesterday, I think it was said that it was a review of 50 years of research. So it wasn't like we did new research that just figured it out yesterday, right? That was the review of the exact research that we've been using for 50 years to attempt to justify the use of these medications for depression. And so the research has always been there. So there are half the people who, who have at some point just decided they've read enough of the research, maybe they're more up on that and they, you know, healthcare professionals that have said, No, we're not subscribing to that.
(11:21):
We don't think it's linked, but there's still, even with 50 years of research saying it's not linked because of what we've been told. And I was told the same thing in school, by the way. Uh, chemical imbalances, serotonin, you know, et cetera. And then we talked about natural means to affect serotonin, right? And so anyway, so I wanna make that clear too, that there's still 50% of professionals out there that will tell you to this day if you went and ask 'em, you know that it's because of a chemical, um, imbalance. And so the next question that we get is, is it genetic? We get that a lot about everything, don't we? Like, one of the most, most common questions we get across the board and, um, and the research shows repeatedly that there is absolutely no depression gene Right? Now, what's the caveat to that though, Bridget?
Brigitte Spurgeon (12:04):
There can be a small genetic component. Is that what you're talking about?
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (12:10):
Yep, exactly. So while there's not a specific gene that genes can impact other things, when you say something is multisystem and complex, right? Then there are genes out there that can be activated
Brigitte Spurgeon (12:23):
That could affect, affect the guts
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (12:25):
Or Yeah, exactly. Or met metabolics or any of the other, you know, seven different things that, uh, that, uh, that can be impacted in prison.
Brigitte Spurgeon (12:33):
So indirectly, indirectly, your genetics could, but the thing is, it's, you know, that's obviously person to person, and it all goes back to identifying the cause
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (12:42):
Always of the problem. You got it a hundred percent. And I love that, because now it's gonna require testing and not guessing anymore. We can't just say if there's a hundred people in the room, and if everybody's depressed, we can't just throw 'em on SSRIs and, you know, believe that that a, is gonna work for everybody, even if b you think it works at all in spite of what we've just been talking about this whole episode, right? And the research says, um,
Brigitte Spurgeon (13:03):
Well, you know, the thing is, like what we're doing here, and I love this because we're scientifically removing the lies. We're, we're not just like tweaking a mindset here. Like you're giving the science that removes a lie because when you believe that your body is broken or you're not enough, or you know, it's just a chemical imbalance, there's a powerlessness to that mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so, you know, if, if we can help with the truth in there and, and empower people, educate people to identify the, identify the root cause of the problem that is hope, that is healing. And, and, and that in itself can help with, you know, let's say 25% of the depression
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (13:50):
Exactly.
Brigitte Spurgeon (13:51):
Is just having, is just having hope.
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (13:53):
Exactly. Yep. So true. Um, and in fact, if you look at the multisystem, like that's one of the things because if you have hope, it actually changes your brainwaves, right? So one of the things that they talk about with what is actually leading to the depression, let's get into that a little bit, um, is they'll talk about, um, brainwaves and so high wave, low wave, and we're not getting, we've talked about that actually when, as pertains to sleep and other things, right? And other episodes. So go back and listen to those. But, um, but when it comes to depression, um, they, they can identify with a major depressive disorder when people spend, you know, more time in certain brainwaves. And the way that we, well, we'll get into the solutions about that here a little bit. But anyway, so to your point, and then when you speak life to someone, it changes their, their brainwaves, it absolutely gets them into a heightened state, we would call it.
(14:43):
But that's actually a shift in brainwave activity, right? So you can literally through, you know, different modalities and different activities and protocols, you can actually shift your brain waves. Another one is related to neurotransmitters, but not the same as hormones. But it's not the way people think, cuz when you say hormones and neurotransmitters, people immediately think serotonin, dopamine, right? That's what, that's where we go because that's where the medications have really focused on, based on false hypothesis. But as it, but what we do, we do have is research that repeatedly says, your cortisol levels related to stress, right? Um, or your testosterone levels or estrogen levels, those actually are very directly correlate to depressive issues. And so while we've been, we've been focusing on the wrong neurotransmitters or the wrong hormones, you know, for all these years, it seems, while we do have research that strongly says, Wait a minute, and now we get into the question, Well, how do I positively affect my estrogen testosterone and cortisol?
(15:45):
Well, first of all, you gotta know what they look like, right? You gotta run the lab, the correct labs, I'll say. And you gotta know what they really look like. And then once you know, is it high, is it low? And a lot of it's about ratios, not even about high or low, so much as high or low related to other hormones that might be higher, low, right? The ratios of those hormones. Um, then we can get into, you know, what the solution is. But balancing hormones, you know, would obviously be the generic solution there. Um, and then, um, uh, and then there's this, the, the kind of the topics of nutrients that directly impact it, gut health, which impacts your ability to even break down, absorb and assimilate those nutrients. And really the big umbrella conversation with nutrients and gut health is inflammation in general, right?
(16:33):
One of, And so inflammation has been shown to be directly correlate to depression as well. Uh, nutrient deficiency correlated to depression, all of these things out, out correlate serotonin. Um, and, uh, and then microbiome imbalance for sure, toxicity correlate to depression through research. Um, so anyway, so multisystem failure, right? And so I wanna talk a little bit about stress for one second though, because I think that that's one, like, there, there's the emotion of feeling depressed and you can have like a depressed day or, or a depressed feeling, you know, from things that happened or whatever. Um, but the big, uh, the big thing I wanted to say was that stress doesn't make us feel overwhelmed and frazzled exclusively, although it can, cuz a lot of people say, I'm stressed and if I stay frazzled enough, I end up depressed. And that's like saying a plus question mark equals, you know, c like we, like that's not the full equation, right?
(17:33):
That's not how that works. But what does happen is, and we talk about this in our stress episodes, again, go back and listen to those and you can direct, you know, really backfill this conversation. But stress, experiencing stress and the missing link is the effect, the direct effect on your physiology, right? The, on your, like how stress impacts the hormones, estrogen, testosterone, cortisol, how stress impacts your microbiome, right? That is really the underlying cause of all these things, but it's because of the physiological effect. And the beautiful thing about that is when I say, um, stressed, therefore I'm frazzled. And because I can't get out of the stress in my life, I'm now depressed. There is no power in that at all. None. You are completely a victim of everything that's happening to you. And you're, and you're, you're, you know, now you're depressed and, and it's a terrible, it's an awful loop that's missing the key ingredient that when you get stressed, it changes your biochemistry or physiology.
(18:31):
And now that's something you can do something about with the right testing, the right functional set of eyes, looking at the results of the test. You can see where even if things are sub symptomatic, you know, in the testing or even if they're within normal medical limits, a lot of times you can see the effects of stress and start to change the physiology. Sometimes it's a simple, I mean, like two supplements sometimes is enough for some people to come out of a depression, you know? So I just wanted to make that clear for everybody too, is that that's another traditional approach even in the natural world, right? Where it's like, oh, it's the emotion of it. And then, you know, then we go into talk therapy and then you do nothing else. And a lot of times, you know, that then people end up on medications because that wasn't enough. But cuz they didn't address the physiology, right? And so I just wanted to hit on that. Anything else you wanna say about stress as it relates to hormones and all that stuff there? Inflammation.
Brigitte Spurgeon (19:23):
Yeah. Also, it just reminded me of what we spoke about in our stress episodes where we address the physiology of what we're going through, not the emotion or the, or the feeling of what we're going through because that just perpetuates the negative situation. And, and, and that's how you can lead down that road of depression where, and I'm, you know, I've certainly experienced, uh, that in different seasons. Uh, but if we understand, and this is what our podcast is all about, when you understand, uh, you know, looking to the cause when you understand physiology, what are, how your hormones are working, hormone cascades, things like that. And that's, that's obviously a journey to understand those, but the more that you're educated, you can do the right things. So if you are having a depressive episode in, you know, for example, instead of popping something or in, instead of just like leaning into the depression, going for a walk in nature or making sure that you're doing anti-inflammatory nutrition mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, having a meal that now supports your systems versus having a meal that supports your dre depressive
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (20:34):
Emotions. Yeah. Right on. That's awesome. I love that. And, uh, and, and um, you that may you, when you said walking in nature, it made me think of exercise, right? In general. So we need to address that. And then also that affects your brainwaves. I was, was reminded of a lot of the research that I read before prepping for that workshop, um, was that just by being out in nature, um, and hear, and it's literally, it's been, it's a, and I think this is incredible, but literally hearing the sound of the trees and leaves actually gets you out of the slow and into the faster brainwaves. So too much slow brainwaves in the frontal cortex, a prefrontal cortex or whatever, actually is directly associated with major depressive disorder. And so just by being outside, hearing the birds chirping, right? Just those, the sounds of nature and being out there doing that, just for something as simple as a walk that, and this is why that has been shown to outperform, just simply walking in nature has been shown in research to outperform the top depressive medications, but now we know why or we understand better why, right?
(21:32):
Um, and then, uh, and then exercise, right? Of course. Like that's been shown repeatedly to outperform, uh, the top depression medications, um, over and over again.
Brigitte Spurgeon (21:45):
I have a tip on that. And if you, if you are someone that suffers from, from depress depression or has depressive episodes or even those episodes of high stress where you feel like it paralyzes you, if you have someone in your, in your life like a spouse or a friend or neighbor or sibling that, that knows to get you out of the house or to get you on that hike or to go for a walk or to join you for a workout, that's just a great conversation to have so that those people can be supportive in your life. I, you know, I just know, so I, you know, I have experienced depression in my history and, you know, look, looking back at it probably was because I, um, I had a polycystic ovarian, uh, syndrome and had, uh, estrogen imbalance and it, you know, some factors.
(22:39):
I certainly did have some, you know, trauma in my childhood and and so forth. So it, it all makes sense in hindsight. But, and, and I would say now, if anything, it would be, I don't know, this is maybe a couple times a year where I just, I may have a day or a few hours where I feel low. And, and, and for me, I'm actually one of those people, Dr. Bagwell, that, that it probably does come after a high stress like that, that that overwhelm maybe a like very maxed out high stress week, and then maybe it's that Friday morning or that Saturday morning, and I'm, you know, almost just like mm-hmm <affirmative> <laugh>, like my systems are just completely overloaded and I'm so aware of my body that I immediately, I know the feeling and I'm like, Whoa, I'm low. And I communicate that with my husband or my husband just knows, and he is so good. He, he's like, Hey, let's go for a walk. Go for, you know, he u he used to say he knows that like swimming is my thing. And he's like, You need to go for a swim <laugh>, or, or he gets us out for a hike or something. And that's really been so helpful to me because they're in those moments when we feel that way, we don't have the motivation to
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (23:51):
Do it <laugh>. Oh yeah. And as you were talking even a minute ago before you said that, like, I was thinking the same thing, it's important to enlist people in your life that both get, I think can help from the mental aspect. You know, again, I'm, I've been a fan of, of talk therapy for a long time and you know, it's helped through a lot of life circumstances and such. And, um, but I think also, and that's the obvious one for most people, and then you need someone who is gonna help you with your physiology. It's, it's the, it's the mind and the body piece. And uh, and unfortunately where we put, uh, you know, as evidenced by what's came out yesterday, you know, we put a lot of that body, uh, responsibility on the medical model, but it's really a sick management and a sick care system.
(24:28):
It's not about health. And so you really need to pick someone that's gonna walk you through improving your physiology with the goal of you actually being healthier. And, uh, and so, but that is now, so if you're experiencing depression, you now we understand you really do have to address all of these different issues and which also means you gotta do testing. You know, so who's gonna do the right kind of testing for you? Um, and then who's gonna interpret it correctly in context of your, your, your full history and what your real goals are, um, and look it through on a functional lens, right? Not just through a disease lens. Do you have the disease or not? Cuz so many people come in and they say, my doctor said everything was completely fine. And then you look at it, and while it's not disease levels, it's certainly dysfunctional, right? Um, but they were told they were fine. And people get frustrated over that a lot. But I think you have to have the right community around you, right? Absolutely. Surround yourself with people who, you know, who can help get you back on track. You know, say, Hey, maybe you need to go talk this out, or I can talk it out with you. Or Hey, let's, let's, uh, let's look at, you know, some labs or something and see how we can help you.
Brigitte Spurgeon (25:34):
And you know, certainly not everyone has, uh, that spouse or family member or friend in their corner. And that is actually when you reach out for the professional support in the community. I just know, especially over the pandemic where there was a lot of like self quarantine and people felt isolated from family, friends and neighbors. And that's where our clinic played a huge role in forming community, even if it's on a remote or virtual level, but forming that support system around people who actually didn't have it naturally built in. Yeah. So, you know, if you don't have it naturally built in, that's okay. Like, that's what places like True Health are for. We, we come alongside you, we walk with you, we hold you accountable, we speak life into you greatness into you. We give you grace and, and love and, um,
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (26:30):
Yeah. Hey, amen.
Brigitte Spurgeon (26:31):
Teach you about your
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (26:32):
Physiology. That means they walk through the door and it changes those brainwaves, right? And we've had so many people come through the door and say that, right? Like, they come through and say, All right, I know I'm gonna get healthy here and we haven't even talked about anything. Um, and last thing I'll say on this topic for right now, which is really exciting and it's absolutely God's timing on everything, is that I'm actually, uh, right, right from this recording I'm gonna meet with, um, a local therapist, um, who's an acquaintance of mine. And, uh, and he has that mental health aspect of stress and anxiety down pretty good. And, uh, and he and he understood the need for physiology. And so we do get, refer referrals from therapists, right? And therapists understand more of what it is that we, we do here. Um, and so he actually wants to meet and talk about creating a program where we can go into the church and actually, um, happens to be his connections cuz his, his, um, mental health practices actually also a ministry.
(27:23):
And so he wants to create a program that addresses the mind and the physiology in regards to anxiety and depression. And so, uh, so this is a, you know, more and more people are realizing that we need to do something different. Um, and so now because of that, we're creating things that are gonna be different for people so they can really walk this stuff out and get healthy together. So kind of an exciting time, timely, perfect time on this topic. And, uh, and I think we could do more episodes in the future, uh, if people would like, uh, to, you know, on these individual things that help depression, right? We could talk about exercise and context of depression, do a whole episode on that nutrition, of course, weight loss specifically, um, uh, that kind of thing. So, uh, any other thoughts before we wrap up this episode?
Brigitte Spurgeon (28:10):
No, I just like, you know, the, the word that I'm hearing is, is physiology address the physiology. And you've heard Dr. Bagwell and I say in the past, it's all about asking the right questions. So as you're addressing things, I, I think that's a good question at like, how am I supporting my physiology? How am I healing my physiology? And, you know, in this situation, you know, decreasing inflammation and we do that heavily through our nutrition. We have to protect what we put into our body. Uh, we have to make sure that our body is moving in a healthy way. We have to make sure that we are communicating and have healthy community. And so there, there's just a whole world out there that does give us hope because they're just lifestyle things that are supportive and, and support us on that road
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (29:00):
Healing. And I, and I, we don't usually do this, but I mean, but I, I would like to say it live now, that if anybody's out there that's struggling with this and they need help, they need community, um, maybe they just would like to, you know, talk for 15 minutes and share with you or I about their, their health history and, and, uh, maybe we can plug them into someone wherever that we know people listen to this all over the country, um, and maybe actually outside of the country now. And so, uh, so we're happy to, uh, to have that conversation. I think I'm willing, I know you're willing to, I'll, I'll say it, but we're willing to give 15 minutes of our time, you know? Absolutely. So no cost for that. If you are suffering from depression and you need someone to talk to and you need some help in what that next step might be for you, um, then, uh, if you mention this podcast, let's say, so we know that you've already heard kind of all of our perspective on it, if you mention this podcast, then we'd be willing to give you 15 minutes of our time.
(29:48):
So just reach out to us, um, and any of the menu channels that you can reach out to us, we can post links, um, for calendars, um, you know, with the podcast or even our, our office number. Um, and we'd love to, to just have a conversation with you for 15 minutes and tell you what we'd do, you know, and maybe what the next best steps are. Are you okay with that? A
Brigitte Spurgeon (30:05):
Hundred percent. Happy to do
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (30:07):
It. Okay. I figured you would be very good. Well, thank you very much for joining us today on Trail Solutions Podcast on this kind of a different conversation that we had today, um, about depression. Um, we'll do more on it in the future. Make sure you stay tuned, uh, hit the like button so you get notified of, uh, any future episodes. So we love you and we look forward to checking in with you on the next episode. Thanks for joining us today on True Health Solutions Podcast. Make sure that you click to subscribe. Also go to our website, www.truehealthcharlotte.com, where you can download any resources related to today show or any future shows. And lastly, if you search for True Health Center Group on Facebook, you'll be able to join our free health community. We look forward to seeing you there.
There is absolutely zero empirical data that supports the link between serotonin and depression. Welcome to the True Health Solutions Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, stress, inflammation, and functional health clinician.
Brigitte Spurgeon (00:11):
And I'm your co-host Bridget Spurgeon Metabolism and nutrition expert.
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (00:15):
This podcast is where we bring hope, truth, and inspiration for your holistic health
Brigitte Spurgeon (00:20):
Journey, because the world needs the best version of you.
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (00:25):
Hello and welcome to True Health Solutions Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, here with my co-host.
Brigitte Spurgeon (00:30):
And I'm Bridget Spurgeon.
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (00:32):
The Bridget Spurgeon. And so we are gonna be talking about something today that is incredibly widespread, um, that I have personal experience with, uh, even, uh, in my health journey. Uh, and it's so widespread. I would say that on a daily basis in the clinic, for sure, you know, we're talking to a patient about this particular issue, uh, as a part of their history. Maybe it's a part of their victory. Um, and, uh, and or, you know, we're just doing things obviously to support their overall body, which really ties into our new understanding of the cause of it. And what we're talking about today is depression. All right? And a lot of times you'd think, Well, what, what is, what is a, what is a, a nutritionist, you know, weight loss program, chiropractor function, What does that have to do with depression? Well, today we're gonna talk about it, and we're gonna talk about it because, uh, some research that just came out kind of stimulated our decision to talk about on today's podcast.
(01:23):
And that is, uh, basically that the, the 50 year ongoing hypothesis as to what causes depression and how we treat it from a medical paradigm, meaning like what the pills do and why we use those pills and such, uh, has just been, the legs have been cut out from under it completely, where some researchers went and did a full retrospective 50 year review of all of the research that's ever been done on serotonin and how it relates to depression. And their conclusion was that there is absolutely zero empirical data that supports the link between serotonin and depression. And so every now and again, you know, we get one of these articles or one of these reviews that comes out that really completely changes the course of, you know, how, how we do things with our health, how we view and manage our health. And oftentimes it is a medi medicine related thing, right?
(02:16):
A kind of a hypothesis. But the problem is, is that most people have perceived that, uh, that it's absolute truth, right? They don't know any better. Uh, people don't do their own research. And I'm not saying that everybody has to, you know, dive into every article that's ever been written on it, but they just trust their medical doctor who trusted the scientists. Um, and stuff gets pushed out there before it's ever fully validated. Um, this is a conversation we've had many times over the last three years with all the pandemic stuff. It's like, I don't know if it's true or not. We don't have data. And then they guess, and then now, just like with that, we're finding out, Oh, wait a minute, nobody has antibodies that did all these vaccines, Right? Different, different podcasts, but same principle that we push stuff out before we really know if it works. And it, and, and one of the, one of the subtitles of that article that that report that came out was a multi-billion dollar failure.
Brigitte Spurgeon (03:09):
But now those lives are forever changed because the medications altered their brains and their neurotransmitters, right? So now they're dealing with the repercussions of that potentially for the rest of their lives.
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (03:24):
Yeah. Yeah. I have a couple stories about that. But one of the things that, um, that I actually share at our dinners that we do, and a lot of our workshops actually, is I, I just go through current statistics and one of the ones that seems to stay in the PowerPoints because it's just, I just think about how women are the healthcare decision makers and their family. So by nature, there'll be more women listening to this podcast than men. Um, and one of the stats that I share every time is that one in four women are not just on a medication, which is a lot in and of itself, um, cause that's tens of millions, but one in four women are on a psychotropic medication. So that's 25% of all women in the United States of America are on a mind altering mind, chemistry, shifting, uh, chemical, you know, drug.
(04:11):
Um, and so when something like this comes out, it is, uh, it is disheartening, you know, to think about 50 years of women, you know, loading up on this stuff to the tune of at least a quarter of all women, you know, loading up on things that, uh, all based on a hypothesis that unfortunately 50 years later gets proven as a poor hypothesis. It's wrong. And, um, you know, now we have not only the, we still have the issue of depression, which is what's supposedly has been, you know, getting fixed for all this time. But now we have the side effects of the, uh, false treatment, you know, of that. And so, so it's outside of our scope to diagnose and treat, you know, obviously these types of conditions. Um, but why we're talking about today is one, we have to continue to share the truth, you know, and that that came out.
(04:56):
That's truth that our, our listeners and our patients need to know. And here, number one, um, and, uh, bigger than that is I can honestly say that we've seen people recover from depression a lot in our office over the years from all the different things that we do. Which, uh, when you actually, uh, you know, look at the article and what the conclusions were, it turns out that the solution to depression is complicated, which is not shocking probably to anybody who's ever dealt with depression. Uh, cuz not everybody who has depression has serotonin imbalances, right? And so we've known that for a long time, and it turns out that it's a multisystem issue. Yes. And by nature of, you know, working through the essentials the way that we do, and all the different types of, uh, protocols and modalities and stuff like that, we're a multisystem office.
(05:44):
And so, uh, so between chiropractic and the neurology associated with that, between the functional medicine and impact on hormones, uh, you know, obviously anti-inflammatory nutrition, detoxification, it, how it impacts thyroid and all, you know, gut digestive. Um, and then the, the weight loss, the weight, our approach to weight loss was always in a way to use, again, multisystem approach to weight loss so that people live leaner, right? Longer term. And, uh, and, uh, and it addresses hormones and inflammation and all, you know. So anyway, the way that we've designed everything happens to be completely congruent with now what they're saying would be the solution for, for depression. Um, and so anyway, so we figured we'd chat about it today, Just have a conversation, uh, in front of the audience and just kind of walk through some of the, I guess some of the lies as it pertains to depression.
(06:33):
Um, and then maybe talk about some of the, uh, proposed solutions that seem to be working consistently. And one thing I wanna say real quick before we dive into all that is just that, um, it's important to look at the numbers. And some of the numbers will say, uh, and I don't refute them, that 46% of people who have been taking SSRIs or selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors for depression, okay? There are several of them, um, that they have gotten better from the depression. And so a lot of people would say, Well, how could it not be rela? How can serotonin not be linked to depression if 46% of the people, according to some studies have gotten better? Well, when you go a layer deeper, it turns out that there are a, an an extremely low number of people who only took the pill while they were attempting to recover from the depression, right?
(07:25):
And so the number one thing that accompanies the SSRIs would be talk therapy. So many, many people, um, I, I mean, most people nowadays that I talk to have been to some kind of therapy for whatever things that have come up in life to talk through some things. And, um, and so it turns out that, of, that the high majority of people who have taken an antidepressant have also gone through talk therapy, which we do have really good research that shows that talk therapy is very effective for helping people walk through and walk out of depression, Right? At the same time, people who are depressed that are overweight, they might also, you know, decide like, I'm, I'm, you know, one of the things I'm gonna do to feel better about myself is I'm gonna lose weight. Like we just said, you lose weight. Well, that actually, and if you do it the right way, like we do, like it actually affects five different body systems, right?
(08:16):
Or, you know, there the depression is leading to increased inflammation and aches and pains. So now they're getting adjusted while they're walking through depression. So there's very few people, very, very few out of that 46% that, uh, that ever just did the drug and sat there and did nothing else about their life. They didn't address their life circumstance, they didn't address their health, they didn't address their weight, you know? And so, uh, so I just wanted to say that for clarity, because we do honor all the numbers. We don't just omit things that don't fit our, you know, our narrative, right? Um, and, uh, but we also are gonna go deeper on those numbers and make sure that we fully understand them. So, any comments on that before we dive in?
Brigitte Spurgeon (08:55):
Well, I do wanna add the disclaimer that we don't recommend making any changes in medications without the supervision of your doctor or a professional.
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (09:08):
Yeah. Great. I'll thank you for saying that. And, uh, and we do always say that to patients one on one, you know, just not our scope. And as always, we we're not in the, uh, gosh, there's great quotes from like a hundred years ago about this stuff, but we're not about the management of disease. We really wanna just focus on health, right? And that's what this podcast is about, true health solutions. And, uh, and so let's do that. Let's talk about, um, we kind of talked a little bit about the problem, I guess, and the, the problem that unfortunately now millions people are gonna face with. Now what do I do? Um, so let's walk through, um, just I guess some of the most common questions, um, as it pertains to depression. And the first one, just to be clear, is depression caused by a chemical imbalance?
(09:49):
Over 80% of humans in the United States of America believe that depression is due specifically to a chemical imbalance. Okay? So first of all, so we've already debunked it, but we gotta just know that even if you're listening and you're like, Yeah, I kind of thought that you gotta know that 80% of the people that you come in contact with believe that still. So we gotta get the word out that there's more to the story when it comes to depression. And, um, and I was actually reading, uh, uh, you know, getting prepared for today a little bit, and I was reading, and the better average of 50% kept coming up like a plus or minus, you know, five or 6%. But they were interviewing professionals, healthcare professionals, and they said, um, you know, what do you believe? And and 50% of them on average, uh, said, Yeah, it's from a chemical imbalance.
(10:33):
These are therapists, these are, um, of different kinds. Like, so mental health therapists, there are physical therapists, medical doctors, right? Everybody there, there's still half the clinicians. Even though this research, by the way, I know this, this, remember the research that came out and yesterday, I think it was said that it was a review of 50 years of research. So it wasn't like we did new research that just figured it out yesterday, right? That was the review of the exact research that we've been using for 50 years to attempt to justify the use of these medications for depression. And so the research has always been there. So there are half the people who, who have at some point just decided they've read enough of the research, maybe they're more up on that and they, you know, healthcare professionals that have said, No, we're not subscribing to that.
(11:21):
We don't think it's linked, but there's still, even with 50 years of research saying it's not linked because of what we've been told. And I was told the same thing in school, by the way. Uh, chemical imbalances, serotonin, you know, et cetera. And then we talked about natural means to affect serotonin, right? And so anyway, so I wanna make that clear too, that there's still 50% of professionals out there that will tell you to this day if you went and ask 'em, you know that it's because of a chemical, um, imbalance. And so the next question that we get is, is it genetic? We get that a lot about everything, don't we? Like, one of the most, most common questions we get across the board and, um, and the research shows repeatedly that there is absolutely no depression gene Right? Now, what's the caveat to that though, Bridget?
Brigitte Spurgeon (12:04):
There can be a small genetic component. Is that what you're talking about?
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (12:10):
Yep, exactly. So while there's not a specific gene that genes can impact other things, when you say something is multisystem and complex, right? Then there are genes out there that can be activated
Brigitte Spurgeon (12:23):
That could affect, affect the guts
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (12:25):
Or Yeah, exactly. Or met metabolics or any of the other, you know, seven different things that, uh, that, uh, that can be impacted in prison.
Brigitte Spurgeon (12:33):
So indirectly, indirectly, your genetics could, but the thing is, it's, you know, that's obviously person to person, and it all goes back to identifying the cause
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (12:42):
Always of the problem. You got it a hundred percent. And I love that, because now it's gonna require testing and not guessing anymore. We can't just say if there's a hundred people in the room, and if everybody's depressed, we can't just throw 'em on SSRIs and, you know, believe that that a, is gonna work for everybody, even if b you think it works at all in spite of what we've just been talking about this whole episode, right? And the research says, um,
Brigitte Spurgeon (13:03):
Well, you know, the thing is, like what we're doing here, and I love this because we're scientifically removing the lies. We're, we're not just like tweaking a mindset here. Like you're giving the science that removes a lie because when you believe that your body is broken or you're not enough, or you know, it's just a chemical imbalance, there's a powerlessness to that mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so, you know, if, if we can help with the truth in there and, and empower people, educate people to identify the, identify the root cause of the problem that is hope, that is healing. And, and, and that in itself can help with, you know, let's say 25% of the depression
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (13:50):
Exactly.
Brigitte Spurgeon (13:51):
Is just having, is just having hope.
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (13:53):
Exactly. Yep. So true. Um, and in fact, if you look at the multisystem, like that's one of the things because if you have hope, it actually changes your brainwaves, right? So one of the things that they talk about with what is actually leading to the depression, let's get into that a little bit, um, is they'll talk about, um, brainwaves and so high wave, low wave, and we're not getting, we've talked about that actually when, as pertains to sleep and other things, right? And other episodes. So go back and listen to those. But, um, but when it comes to depression, um, they, they can identify with a major depressive disorder when people spend, you know, more time in certain brainwaves. And the way that we, well, we'll get into the solutions about that here a little bit. But anyway, so to your point, and then when you speak life to someone, it changes their, their brainwaves, it absolutely gets them into a heightened state, we would call it.
(14:43):
But that's actually a shift in brainwave activity, right? So you can literally through, you know, different modalities and different activities and protocols, you can actually shift your brain waves. Another one is related to neurotransmitters, but not the same as hormones. But it's not the way people think, cuz when you say hormones and neurotransmitters, people immediately think serotonin, dopamine, right? That's what, that's where we go because that's where the medications have really focused on, based on false hypothesis. But as it, but what we do, we do have is research that repeatedly says, your cortisol levels related to stress, right? Um, or your testosterone levels or estrogen levels, those actually are very directly correlate to depressive issues. And so while we've been, we've been focusing on the wrong neurotransmitters or the wrong hormones, you know, for all these years, it seems, while we do have research that strongly says, Wait a minute, and now we get into the question, Well, how do I positively affect my estrogen testosterone and cortisol?
(15:45):
Well, first of all, you gotta know what they look like, right? You gotta run the lab, the correct labs, I'll say. And you gotta know what they really look like. And then once you know, is it high, is it low? And a lot of it's about ratios, not even about high or low, so much as high or low related to other hormones that might be higher, low, right? The ratios of those hormones. Um, then we can get into, you know, what the solution is. But balancing hormones, you know, would obviously be the generic solution there. Um, and then, um, uh, and then there's this, the, the kind of the topics of nutrients that directly impact it, gut health, which impacts your ability to even break down, absorb and assimilate those nutrients. And really the big umbrella conversation with nutrients and gut health is inflammation in general, right?
(16:33):
One of, And so inflammation has been shown to be directly correlate to depression as well. Uh, nutrient deficiency correlated to depression, all of these things out, out correlate serotonin. Um, and, uh, and then microbiome imbalance for sure, toxicity correlate to depression through research. Um, so anyway, so multisystem failure, right? And so I wanna talk a little bit about stress for one second though, because I think that that's one, like, there, there's the emotion of feeling depressed and you can have like a depressed day or, or a depressed feeling, you know, from things that happened or whatever. Um, but the big, uh, the big thing I wanted to say was that stress doesn't make us feel overwhelmed and frazzled exclusively, although it can, cuz a lot of people say, I'm stressed and if I stay frazzled enough, I end up depressed. And that's like saying a plus question mark equals, you know, c like we, like that's not the full equation, right?
(17:33):
That's not how that works. But what does happen is, and we talk about this in our stress episodes, again, go back and listen to those and you can direct, you know, really backfill this conversation. But stress, experiencing stress and the missing link is the effect, the direct effect on your physiology, right? The, on your, like how stress impacts the hormones, estrogen, testosterone, cortisol, how stress impacts your microbiome, right? That is really the underlying cause of all these things, but it's because of the physiological effect. And the beautiful thing about that is when I say, um, stressed, therefore I'm frazzled. And because I can't get out of the stress in my life, I'm now depressed. There is no power in that at all. None. You are completely a victim of everything that's happening to you. And you're, and you're, you're, you know, now you're depressed and, and it's a terrible, it's an awful loop that's missing the key ingredient that when you get stressed, it changes your biochemistry or physiology.
(18:31):
And now that's something you can do something about with the right testing, the right functional set of eyes, looking at the results of the test. You can see where even if things are sub symptomatic, you know, in the testing or even if they're within normal medical limits, a lot of times you can see the effects of stress and start to change the physiology. Sometimes it's a simple, I mean, like two supplements sometimes is enough for some people to come out of a depression, you know? So I just wanted to make that clear for everybody too, is that that's another traditional approach even in the natural world, right? Where it's like, oh, it's the emotion of it. And then, you know, then we go into talk therapy and then you do nothing else. And a lot of times, you know, that then people end up on medications because that wasn't enough. But cuz they didn't address the physiology, right? And so I just wanted to hit on that. Anything else you wanna say about stress as it relates to hormones and all that stuff there? Inflammation.
Brigitte Spurgeon (19:23):
Yeah. Also, it just reminded me of what we spoke about in our stress episodes where we address the physiology of what we're going through, not the emotion or the, or the feeling of what we're going through because that just perpetuates the negative situation. And, and, and that's how you can lead down that road of depression where, and I'm, you know, I've certainly experienced, uh, that in different seasons. Uh, but if we understand, and this is what our podcast is all about, when you understand, uh, you know, looking to the cause when you understand physiology, what are, how your hormones are working, hormone cascades, things like that. And that's, that's obviously a journey to understand those, but the more that you're educated, you can do the right things. So if you are having a depressive episode in, you know, for example, instead of popping something or in, instead of just like leaning into the depression, going for a walk in nature or making sure that you're doing anti-inflammatory nutrition mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, having a meal that now supports your systems versus having a meal that supports your dre depressive
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (20:34):
Emotions. Yeah. Right on. That's awesome. I love that. And, uh, and, and um, you that may you, when you said walking in nature, it made me think of exercise, right? In general. So we need to address that. And then also that affects your brainwaves. I was, was reminded of a lot of the research that I read before prepping for that workshop, um, was that just by being out in nature, um, and hear, and it's literally, it's been, it's a, and I think this is incredible, but literally hearing the sound of the trees and leaves actually gets you out of the slow and into the faster brainwaves. So too much slow brainwaves in the frontal cortex, a prefrontal cortex or whatever, actually is directly associated with major depressive disorder. And so just by being outside, hearing the birds chirping, right? Just those, the sounds of nature and being out there doing that, just for something as simple as a walk that, and this is why that has been shown to outperform, just simply walking in nature has been shown in research to outperform the top depressive medications, but now we know why or we understand better why, right?
(21:32):
Um, and then, uh, and then exercise, right? Of course. Like that's been shown repeatedly to outperform, uh, the top depression medications, um, over and over again.
Brigitte Spurgeon (21:45):
I have a tip on that. And if you, if you are someone that suffers from, from depress depression or has depressive episodes or even those episodes of high stress where you feel like it paralyzes you, if you have someone in your, in your life like a spouse or a friend or neighbor or sibling that, that knows to get you out of the house or to get you on that hike or to go for a walk or to join you for a workout, that's just a great conversation to have so that those people can be supportive in your life. I, you know, I just know, so I, you know, I have experienced depression in my history and, you know, look, looking back at it probably was because I, um, I had a polycystic ovarian, uh, syndrome and had, uh, estrogen imbalance and it, you know, some factors.
(22:39):
I certainly did have some, you know, trauma in my childhood and and so forth. So it, it all makes sense in hindsight. But, and, and I would say now, if anything, it would be, I don't know, this is maybe a couple times a year where I just, I may have a day or a few hours where I feel low. And, and, and for me, I'm actually one of those people, Dr. Bagwell, that, that it probably does come after a high stress like that, that that overwhelm maybe a like very maxed out high stress week, and then maybe it's that Friday morning or that Saturday morning, and I'm, you know, almost just like mm-hmm <affirmative> <laugh>, like my systems are just completely overloaded and I'm so aware of my body that I immediately, I know the feeling and I'm like, Whoa, I'm low. And I communicate that with my husband or my husband just knows, and he is so good. He, he's like, Hey, let's go for a walk. Go for, you know, he u he used to say he knows that like swimming is my thing. And he's like, You need to go for a swim <laugh>, or, or he gets us out for a hike or something. And that's really been so helpful to me because they're in those moments when we feel that way, we don't have the motivation to
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (23:51):
Do it <laugh>. Oh yeah. And as you were talking even a minute ago before you said that, like, I was thinking the same thing, it's important to enlist people in your life that both get, I think can help from the mental aspect. You know, again, I'm, I've been a fan of, of talk therapy for a long time and you know, it's helped through a lot of life circumstances and such. And, um, but I think also, and that's the obvious one for most people, and then you need someone who is gonna help you with your physiology. It's, it's the, it's the mind and the body piece. And uh, and unfortunately where we put, uh, you know, as evidenced by what's came out yesterday, you know, we put a lot of that body, uh, responsibility on the medical model, but it's really a sick management and a sick care system.
(24:28):
It's not about health. And so you really need to pick someone that's gonna walk you through improving your physiology with the goal of you actually being healthier. And, uh, and so, but that is now, so if you're experiencing depression, you now we understand you really do have to address all of these different issues and which also means you gotta do testing. You know, so who's gonna do the right kind of testing for you? Um, and then who's gonna interpret it correctly in context of your, your, your full history and what your real goals are, um, and look it through on a functional lens, right? Not just through a disease lens. Do you have the disease or not? Cuz so many people come in and they say, my doctor said everything was completely fine. And then you look at it, and while it's not disease levels, it's certainly dysfunctional, right? Um, but they were told they were fine. And people get frustrated over that a lot. But I think you have to have the right community around you, right? Absolutely. Surround yourself with people who, you know, who can help get you back on track. You know, say, Hey, maybe you need to go talk this out, or I can talk it out with you. Or Hey, let's, let's, uh, let's look at, you know, some labs or something and see how we can help you.
Brigitte Spurgeon (25:34):
And you know, certainly not everyone has, uh, that spouse or family member or friend in their corner. And that is actually when you reach out for the professional support in the community. I just know, especially over the pandemic where there was a lot of like self quarantine and people felt isolated from family, friends and neighbors. And that's where our clinic played a huge role in forming community, even if it's on a remote or virtual level, but forming that support system around people who actually didn't have it naturally built in. Yeah. So, you know, if you don't have it naturally built in, that's okay. Like, that's what places like True Health are for. We, we come alongside you, we walk with you, we hold you accountable, we speak life into you greatness into you. We give you grace and, and love and, um,
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (26:30):
Yeah. Hey, amen.
Brigitte Spurgeon (26:31):
Teach you about your
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (26:32):
Physiology. That means they walk through the door and it changes those brainwaves, right? And we've had so many people come through the door and say that, right? Like, they come through and say, All right, I know I'm gonna get healthy here and we haven't even talked about anything. Um, and last thing I'll say on this topic for right now, which is really exciting and it's absolutely God's timing on everything, is that I'm actually, uh, right, right from this recording I'm gonna meet with, um, a local therapist, um, who's an acquaintance of mine. And, uh, and he has that mental health aspect of stress and anxiety down pretty good. And, uh, and he and he understood the need for physiology. And so we do get, refer referrals from therapists, right? And therapists understand more of what it is that we, we do here. Um, and so he actually wants to meet and talk about creating a program where we can go into the church and actually, um, happens to be his connections cuz his, his, um, mental health practices actually also a ministry.
(27:23):
And so he wants to create a program that addresses the mind and the physiology in regards to anxiety and depression. And so, uh, so this is a, you know, more and more people are realizing that we need to do something different. Um, and so now because of that, we're creating things that are gonna be different for people so they can really walk this stuff out and get healthy together. So kind of an exciting time, timely, perfect time on this topic. And, uh, and I think we could do more episodes in the future, uh, if people would like, uh, to, you know, on these individual things that help depression, right? We could talk about exercise and context of depression, do a whole episode on that nutrition, of course, weight loss specifically, um, uh, that kind of thing. So, uh, any other thoughts before we wrap up this episode?
Brigitte Spurgeon (28:10):
No, I just like, you know, the, the word that I'm hearing is, is physiology address the physiology. And you've heard Dr. Bagwell and I say in the past, it's all about asking the right questions. So as you're addressing things, I, I think that's a good question at like, how am I supporting my physiology? How am I healing my physiology? And, you know, in this situation, you know, decreasing inflammation and we do that heavily through our nutrition. We have to protect what we put into our body. Uh, we have to make sure that our body is moving in a healthy way. We have to make sure that we are communicating and have healthy community. And so there, there's just a whole world out there that does give us hope because they're just lifestyle things that are supportive and, and support us on that road
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (29:00):
Healing. And I, and I, we don't usually do this, but I mean, but I, I would like to say it live now, that if anybody's out there that's struggling with this and they need help, they need community, um, maybe they just would like to, you know, talk for 15 minutes and share with you or I about their, their health history and, and, uh, maybe we can plug them into someone wherever that we know people listen to this all over the country, um, and maybe actually outside of the country now. And so, uh, so we're happy to, uh, to have that conversation. I think I'm willing, I know you're willing to, I'll, I'll say it, but we're willing to give 15 minutes of our time, you know? Absolutely. So no cost for that. If you are suffering from depression and you need someone to talk to and you need some help in what that next step might be for you, um, then, uh, if you mention this podcast, let's say, so we know that you've already heard kind of all of our perspective on it, if you mention this podcast, then we'd be willing to give you 15 minutes of our time.
(29:48):
So just reach out to us, um, and any of the menu channels that you can reach out to us, we can post links, um, for calendars, um, you know, with the podcast or even our, our office number. Um, and we'd love to, to just have a conversation with you for 15 minutes and tell you what we'd do, you know, and maybe what the next best steps are. Are you okay with that? A
Brigitte Spurgeon (30:05):
Hundred percent. Happy to do
Dr. Lonnie Bagwell, DC (30:07):
It. Okay. I figured you would be very good. Well, thank you very much for joining us today on Trail Solutions Podcast on this kind of a different conversation that we had today, um, about depression. Um, we'll do more on it in the future. Make sure you stay tuned, uh, hit the like button so you get notified of, uh, any future episodes. So we love you and we look forward to checking in with you on the next episode. Thanks for joining us today on True Health Solutions Podcast. Make sure that you click to subscribe. Also go to our website, www.truehealthcharlotte.com, where you can download any resources related to today show or any future shows. And lastly, if you search for True Health Center Group on Facebook, you'll be able to join our free health community. We look forward to seeing you there.
